Comments on: The most important question in health care http://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/blog/2008/11/03/the-most-important-question-in-health-care/ Up To The Minute Analysis Of Ohio Public Policy Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:34:40 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.1 hourly 1 By: Mike Maurer http://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/blog/2008/11/03/the-most-important-question-in-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-1433 Mike Maurer Thu, 06 Nov 2008 11:26:01 +0000 http://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/blog/?p=3412#comment-1433 Very interesting, TL. Your post makes *me* hopeful, but I still fear both that your cohorts aren't on the same page as you and that your concept doesn't really get you anywhere. To say health care should be provided for all is still denying the problem, because it isn't facing up to old Mo's condition, and to say single-payer is a "last resort" is akin to saying invading Iraq is a last resort: The time to pull the trigger is never the time when you have the comfort of public support to do it. (Plus, if you'll forgive a tweak, invading Iraq worked, but single payer will never work.) Very interesting, TL. Your post makes *me* hopeful, but I still fear both that your cohorts aren’t on the same page as you and that your concept doesn’t really get you anywhere. To say health care should be provided for all is still denying the problem, because it isn’t facing up to old Mo’s condition, and to say single-payer is a “last resort” is akin to saying invading Iraq is a last resort: The time to pull the trigger is never the time when you have the comfort of public support to do it. (Plus, if you’ll forgive a tweak, invading Iraq worked, but single payer will never work.)

]]> By: token liberal http://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/blog/2008/11/03/the-most-important-question-in-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-1429 token liberal Wed, 05 Nov 2008 23:43:31 +0000 http://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/blog/?p=3412#comment-1429 Mike: Maybe there is a happy median here (happy for me, anyway :)). At the end of the day, I do believe that health care should be provided for all, even those that cannot afford it. As you will always be quick to correctly point out, that money has to come from someone who has it. On the other hand, I hope that this can be done in such as way as to incentivize through choice and market mechanisms. Anyone who has come face-to-face with single-payer type entities knows that this is a system of last resort. Maybe I am just being hopeful, but please forgive me if I feel a bit optimistic today. Mike:

Maybe there is a happy median here (happy for me, anyway :) ). At the end of the day, I do believe that health care should be provided for all, even those that cannot afford it. As you will always be quick to correctly point out, that money has to come from someone who has it.

On the other hand, I hope that this can be done in such as way as to incentivize through choice and market mechanisms. Anyone who has come face-to-face with single-payer type entities knows that this is a system of last resort.

Maybe I am just being hopeful, but please forgive me if I feel a bit optimistic today.

]]> By: Mike Maurer http://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/blog/2008/11/03/the-most-important-question-in-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-1426 Mike Maurer Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:32:53 +0000 http://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/blog/?p=3412#comment-1426 Token Liberal, good to hear from you. Nice arguments, nice facts. I don't think there's any doubt that we have socialism in medical care. It gives me a chuckle, when it doesn't make me cry, when the ordinary discussion of the news, bureaucrats and politicians assumes that we don't. As to the root question, better care before they get to this condition, I think you're mixing things up there. That's aging and death. While singularity proponents and the Bill Joy's of the world are building up the rather obvious argument that death isn't what it used to be, for now, at least, it isn't a question of some magic care beforehand to prevent the condition, it's the inevitable end game. You do, in the end, make a basic mistake. Your side is only offering a better life, you say. Well, so is mine. The question is which of us is right. You say it is done through socialism, I say it is done through choice, which is capitalism. (Then you say but there's not enough money for the poor, then I say, fine, you go ahead and give them some, etc.) Isn't it simply that you believe the state should distribute resources, and I believe the poor and everyone else should act to increase their resources? It bothers you to see poverty more than it bothers you to see force used to take away wealth and to see actions that undermine wealth, while I'm the converse. Token Liberal, good to hear from you. Nice arguments, nice facts.

I don’t think there’s any doubt that we have socialism in medical care. It gives me a chuckle, when it doesn’t make me cry, when the ordinary discussion of the news, bureaucrats and politicians assumes that we don’t.

As to the root question, better care before they get to this condition, I think you’re mixing things up there. That’s aging and death. While singularity proponents and the Bill Joy’s of the world are building up the rather obvious argument that death isn’t what it used to be, for now, at least, it isn’t a question of some magic care beforehand to prevent the condition, it’s the inevitable end game.

You do, in the end, make a basic mistake. Your side is only offering a better life, you say. Well, so is mine. The question is which of us is right. You say it is done through socialism, I say it is done through choice, which is capitalism. (Then you say but there’s not enough money for the poor, then I say, fine, you go ahead and give them some, etc.)

Isn’t it simply that you believe the state should distribute resources, and I believe the poor and everyone else should act to increase their resources? It bothers you to see poverty more than it bothers you to see force used to take away wealth and to see actions that undermine wealth, while I’m the converse.

]]> By: token liberal http://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/blog/2008/11/03/the-most-important-question-in-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-1425 token liberal Tue, 04 Nov 2008 22:25:45 +0000 http://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/blog/?p=3412#comment-1425 Perhaps we already have "socialism" for those like Mo Udall. I found a web site from the US Gov't that states that in 2005, we as a country spent $206 billion for nursing home care. About 70% of that was paid for by Medicaid and Medicare. Since Medicaid kicks in when you run out of money, it's a safe bet that for those closer to death, the percentage is even higher. Would I like to see health care coverage for people before they get to this condition? Yes. But, either way, you can't ignore the facts as they already are--which is that government is already deeply involved with paying for health care. We have a gap in health coverage between the very poor, who have Medicaid, and those who have decent private insurance. There is a legitimate and serious disagreement over how (or if) this gap should be closed. Still, I do not think my side of this argument is offering eternal life, just a better one. Here's the link: http://www.longtermcare.gov/LTC/Main_Site/Paying_LTC/Costs_Of_Care/Costs_Of_Care.aspx Perhaps we already have “socialism” for those like Mo Udall. I found a web site from the US Gov’t that states that in 2005, we as a country spent $206 billion for nursing home care. About 70% of that was paid for by Medicaid and Medicare. Since Medicaid kicks in when you run out of money, it’s a safe bet that for those closer to death, the percentage is even higher.

Would I like to see health care coverage for people before they get to this condition? Yes. But, either way, you can’t ignore the facts as they already are–which is that government is already deeply involved with paying for health care.

We have a gap in health coverage between the very poor, who have Medicaid, and those who have decent private insurance. There is a legitimate and serious disagreement over how (or if) this gap should be closed. Still, I do not think my side of this argument is offering eternal life, just a better one.

Here’s the link: http://www.longtermcare.gov/LTC/Main_Site/Paying_LTC/Costs_Of_Care/Costs_Of_Care.aspx

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